After the last few issues being sort of blah.....I was really impressed with the way that Finch wrapped up her and some of Azzarello's lingering plots. Between the 2 stories in the Annual, we finally find out why the Amazons are so distrustful and bitter towards men. Hippolyte's mother(the former queen) was poisoned to death by a man. A very young looking Derinoe was infatuated with Hipppolyta and upon saving Hippolyta from an assassination attempt, was struck by a mystical dagger that turned her into the old crone we've come to know. As for the battle between Diana and Donna, I really enjoyed it. Diana was very in character with telling Donna the real meaning of being an Amazon which is to embrace their fears and build one another up. The best part was that she was able to stop Donna, not with a bladed weapon, not with deception, but with her Magic Lasso. Being bound in the lasso showed Donna the horrific truth of her programming by Derinoe and the look on her face states how horrified she was over what she had done previously. I have to say between the characterization, revelations, and amazing art, this Annual was well worth the wait! The Finchs may continue on IMO.
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Finches continue to suck. Though they are smart they show the decent pages in preview and keep the skeletons hidden. The sooner this woman and her husband are gone the better. Does she really think her incoherent rambling is worth something? I have read better fan-fictions.
Last edited by Stone Cold; 06-03-2015 at 05:06 AM.
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The first story was awful, but I really enjoyed the second story. Derinoe has been my favorite part of the Finches' run, so I'm glad they gave her a proper backstory. And Bisexual Hippolyta confirmed!
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Originally Posted by Dr. Poison
After the last few issues being sort of blah.....I was really impressed with the way that Finch wrapped up her and some of Azzarello's lingering plots. Between the 2 stories in the Annual, we finally find out why the Amazons are so distrustful and bitter towards men. Hippolyte's mother(the former queen) was poisoned to death by a man.
The strange thing is, though, that the man was acting as an agent of a woman, Hecate. In fact, she had coerced him. And it's not really presented as part of a larger pattern of misogynistic persecution of the Amazons. So it seems like a pretty weak reason for more than two millenia of reactionary hostility against men in general.
The best part was that she was able to stop Donna, not with a bladed weapon,
Yeah, because Donna grows her arm back after Diana cuts it off. But Diana did try using a bladed weapon before she tried the lasso. I thought it was fine that Diana used the lasso, but all that really happened was that Donna went limp and looked dumbfounded; it wasn't like, for instance, the end of Perez's first arc, when we got to hear Ares' revelation that total war would be the end of war. Here, this particular use of the lasso seems more like a deus ex machina and an anticlimax. Diana's speech was good, but a little generic. Same for Donna's speech about perfection. And the conversion of the Amazons seems awfully abrupt, like by defeating Donna Diana throws a switch that turns them from bad to good. As Diana says, "just like that, it was finished." Anticlimax.
Plus, the insect people episode seemed completely detached from everything else.
The best thing, for me, was that we did get to see a competent and compassionate Diana who had been missing for most of this run. I think the Finches are getting a better general idea of who Diana is. Now, if the writing was less generic and lackluster....
Last edited by Silvanus; 06-03-2015 at 09:33 AM.
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This was a crappy conclusion to a crappy story.
"and just like that it ended" is the worst storytelling.... ugh.
I hate so much of what this team is doing.
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What impressesme, is Finch learns quickly. I prophesized Diana usingthe lasso on donna on another board and it came true.
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I knew that woman holding that baby wasn't Diana, but Derinoe, the Tiara's match. The baby was Diana.
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I gave the Finches a good shot but I really haven't enjoyed their work on the book (I also didn't appreciate the fact that I needed to buy an annual to conclude a story running in the main book)
I sort of like Donna's origin, having her made out of clay and that having her start out as a villain will give them the opportunity to craft a redemption story arc to get her from villain to hero. So I see they clearly have plans moving ahead which is good.
However, I hated the way the Amazons were portrayed and I hated the conclusion to that; they massacred these men and the last inner monologue box from Diana pretty much says 'change is inevitable, we cant continue as we are. but we needn't tear ourselves apart before we even begin to try' - so it was ok to murder all those men? it was a bit wishy washy and just didn't feel very well thought out.
I think I'm definitely gonna drop the book gonna give some other characters a read given the mini relaunch.
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This was a crappy conclusion to a crappy story.
"and just like that it ended" is the worst storytelling.... ugh.
Yep.
And doing it twice in the same story, that was shockingly bad.
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First story.
-Ancient aliens (that get's revealed through Diana's inner monologue?) somehow woke up because Diana threw First born a hole. Diana then somehow accepts responsibility for the 1000s of dead in their wake (why/how in perfect hell does she do that??), and lets the them off with a free pass and passage home. Why!? What was the point of all that?
Ancient aliens: "Diana. Without any possible way of knowing, you woke us up. We killed alot of humans. It's your fault"
Diana: "Okay. My fault guys... So why don't I see what we, the Justice League, can to do help you guys home."
Ancient aliens: "What? Oh. Okay..." IMMEDIATELY CUT TO: Lots of dead men.
-Those taking part in the raid and sent to Hephaestus, "--to serve and atone... --like their brothers before them."... Where the sons of the amazon sent to Heph to "serve and atone"?
-Diana cuts Donna's arm off -I'm sure there'll be talks for years to come how awful and aggressive it was of Diana- since she couldn't banter Donna down. But since the sword didn't work either, she uses a magic lasso... Why not use the lasso first? Also, why not try to say something useful?
-Derinoe (centurys old and is talking loudly to herself) manages to sneak up on Diana (who at the age of 13 was skilled enough to not let Ares get a drop on her.). Derinoe then gets a sword thrown into her belly by a nameless amazon. The amazon without a name then speaks to Diana -as if the amazons have one mind in the matter- how sorry they are. And then: "And just like that t was finished.".
I'm quite astonished by it all, and not in a good way. Luckily my head cannon says WW ended with issue 35 and the secret origins story on a really nice uplifting note, while also tying into WW#1 perfectly (making the story go full circle.)
As for the second part. The flashback thingy. Quite okay written, IMO much better written than the the rest of the current run. I really like Sudzuka's art, some of his best yet. Deri and 'Hyp somewhat resembling Diana and Aleka was quite cool. While I much much prefer Aleka's journey (which didn't need square thought balloons to be told), least it gave Derinoe a bit of gravitas. Not that I think it makes up for the rest of the story, least it was okay.
Last edited by borntohula; 06-03-2015 at 10:12 AM.
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Yep.
And doing it twice in the same story, that was shockingly bad.
Yep, the alien queen person happily leaves... how convenient and the battle with Donna and the Amazons end just like that with the lasso (been done before) and suddenly everyone sees the truth! How simple! The only thing I like about this run is that Donna is back, just hate how she came back as a villian.
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This felt so dull. I enjoyed the second story more (Sudzuka's art was nice to see again). Reading second over again, why is where Hecate goes mentioned? She didn't actually do anything right?
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Diana's incompetence reminds me of john Byrne's run but at least he knew how to write decent dialogue. DC is repeating the same mistakes they did Pre-flashpoint. Putting incompetent writer to follow epic run of Azzarello/chiang is despicable.
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The ending was quite anti-climatic. If the lasso had made Donna come to a life changing revelation like Silvanus mentioned above, the ending would have been more satisfying.
The highlight of the annual though, was the back up story. It gave us a good insight on why the Amazons don't trust men and Hippolyta's accession to the throne. Sudzuka's art was a nice addition as well.
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What a waste of Donna's character. Making her a villain, having her do horrible things and then having a very disappointing conclusion. Just a very poor run all around.
Last edited by Gaelforce; 06-03-2015 at 11:14 AM. Reason: Language
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Haven't read it yet. But.. Did she really cut off her arm? O_o
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Haven't read it yet. But.. Did she really cut off her arm? O_o
There is precedence for it. She cut off the centaurs arm in WW#1.
So that there is no confusion, this post may have sarcasm or snark associated with it.
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Haven't read it yet. But.. Did she really cut off her arm? O_o
Yeah she does.
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Underwhelming conclusion to a weak story arc that made no sense. The dialog was cringe-worthy, cardboard, and repetitive.
The first story was awful, but I really enjoyed the second story. Derinoe has been my favorite part of the Finches' run, so I'm glad they gave her a proper backstory. And Bisexual Hippolyta confirmed!
It's amazing what a better artist can do for writing. The epilogue story was the best thing post-Azzarello. They should ditch David Finch and have Goran Sudzuka as the main artist. That would instantly elevate Meredith's writing but I would rather welcome a new team ASAP.
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Yeah she does.
Well that escalated quickly..
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Seriously? Donna massacres her brothers has a little duel with Diana, loses and gets sent off to Olympus for a prison sentence and we're supposed to believe she is the greatest foe ever for Diana? An awful lot of hype for a very abrupt story. And while I think the second story was much better than the conclusion to the "Donna Troy, greatest enemy of Diana ever" crap ... I think they would have been better served using the extra space to tell a complete conclusion story. They could have wrapped the Derinoe origin into the main story pretty easily and actually made her more of a sympathetic foe rather than just a bitter old woman. such a cliche and IMO a missed opportunity ... the origin itself isn't actually half bad, but they went down a very pedestrian path of turning Derinoe into the woman scorned rather than do something more enlightened with her.
Silvanus hit the nail on the head with his comments regarding the whole thing being the crafting of a female rather than the men of Sparta ... so now we know Hecate is behind the Amazon's hating men, but she just vanishes into the wind and no one thinks to go hunter her down?
Hippolyta is now an even bigger d-bag since she immediately dumped her lover who sacrificed her youth to save her queen? All you folks who hated on what Azzarello did to her should be just as up in arms over this little gem of Hippolyta's lack of loyalty and fickle nature. In addition we now know the Amazon's have been around for at least 1000 years longer than in other continuities but still don't know how they became attached to the Olympians, why and how they found PI etc... this is actually a fairly significant change to prior continuity, given that in 75 years of history I don't believe Hippolyta has ever had a mother, much less one who ruled for 1000 years before her own reign.
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Seriously? Donna massacres her brothers has a little duel with Diana, loses and gets sent off to Olympus for a prison sentence and we're supposed to believe she is the greatest foe ever for Diana? An awful lot of hype for a very abrupt story. And while I think the second story was much better than the conclusion to the "Donna Troy, greatest enemy of Diana ever" crap ... I think they would have been better served using the extra space to tell a complete conclusion story. They could have wrapped the Derinoe origin into the main story pretty easily and actually made her more of a sympathetic foe rather than just a bitter old woman. such a cliche and IMO a missed opportunity ... the origin itself isn't actually half bad, but they went down a very pedestrian path of turning Derinoe into the woman scorned rather than do something more enlightened with her.
Silvanus hit the nail on the head with his comments regarding the whole thing being the crafting of a female rather than the men of Sparta ... so now we know Hecate is behind the Amazon's hating men, but she just vanishes into the wind and no one thinks to go hunter her down?
Hippolyta is now an even bigger d-bag since she immediately dumped her lover who sacrificed her youth to save her queen? All you folks who hated on what Azzarello did to her should be just as up in arms over this little gem of Hippolyta's lack of loyalty and fickle nature. In addition we now know the Amazon's have been around for at least 1000 years longer than in other continuities but still don't know how they became attached to the Olympians, why and how they found PI etc... this is actually a fairly significant change to prior continuity, given that in 75 years of history I don't believe Hippolyta has ever had a mother, much less one who ruled for 1000 years before her own reign.
Finch continued to disappoint - this was a terrible ending to a lousy story.
The alien plotline - what was the point? The aliens were trapped so they had to murder people? Did I miss the 'why' of that part? And to forgive them mass slaughter and send them home just seemed idiotic to me, especially in light of the Amazons being punished.
Which brings me to the main plotline - equally pointless. Donna was never given any real life/personality and no explanation was ever given for the last name. Despite the fact that she and twenty Amazons had just murdered the innocent men in Diana's care, not only do they get light sentences, but where the heck is Hephaestus? His 'sons' were all just slaughtered for no reason whatsoever, and yet he doesn't even appear in the book and apparently just accepts those who murdered his sons as his new apprentices.
Donna never came across as a threat to Diana imo. She created chaos, murdered a bunch of unarmed men, and the battle went nowhere fast.
Lastly, the backup story was just as terrible. I almost get the feeling that Derinoe was made old because it suited the storyline until someone pointed out to the Finch's the the Amazons are immortal, so this 'mysterious dagger that ages people' device was created. Hippolyta is once again written as a horrible person for turning her back on her sister, and the reason for 3000 years of Amazon hating and murdering every man who ever crosses their path is because one man who was being controlled by a woman poisoned their queen?
Man, that makes the Amazons look stupid and petty. At least before they had all suffered horribly from slavery and abuse at the hands of many willing men, but in this case, the guy was literally a tool of Hecate who....
Doesn't do anything else except leave?
Disappointing doesn't even begin to cover this for me.
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Finch continued to disappoint - this was a terrible ending to a lousy story.
The alien plotline - what was the point? The aliens were trapped so they had to murder people? Did I miss the 'why' of that part? And to forgive them mass slaughter and send them home just seemed idiotic to me, especially in light of the Amazons being punished.
Which brings me to the main plotline - equally pointless. Donna was never given any real life/personality and no explanation was ever given for the last name. Despite the fact that she and twenty Amazons had just murdered the innocent men in Diana's care, not only do they get light sentences, but where the heck is Hephaestus? His 'sons' were all just slaughtered for no reason whatsoever, and yet he doesn't even appear in the book and apparently just accepts those who murdered his sons as his new apprentices.
Donna never came across as a threat to Diana imo. She created chaos, murdered a bunch of unarmed men, and the battle went nowhere fast.
Lastly, the backup story was just as terrible. I almost get the feeling that Derinoe was made old because it suited the storyline until someone pointed out to the Finch's the the Amazons are immortal, so this 'mysterious dagger that ages people' device was created. Hippolyta is once again written as a horrible person for turning her back on her sister, and the reason for 3000 years of Amazon hating and murdering every man who ever crosses their path is because one man who was being controlled by a woman poisoned their queen?
Man, that makes the Amazons look stupid and petty. At least before they had all suffered horribly from slavery and abuse at the hands of many willing men, but in this case, the guy was literally a tool of Hecate who....
Doesn't do anything else except leave?
Disappointing doesn't even begin to cover this for me.
If I were being really, really cynical I'd say the lame backstory for the Amazons was just done to make them less sympathetic deliberately. As someone said in another thread, many writers struggle with the Amazons having a backstory of oppression and slavery at the hands of men because it can come off as painting the entire male gender as consisting of monsters. Even when Perez used a god's influence to explain Heracles' behavior that god was a male. Here not only is the source of the Amazons anger female she uses a man to do it (making said man a victim of her's as well).
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Finch continued to disappoint - this was a terrible ending to a lousy story.
The alien plotline - what was the point? The aliens were trapped so they had to murder people? Did I miss the 'why' of that part? And to forgive them mass slaughter and send them home just seemed idiotic to me, especially in light of the Amazons being punished.
Which brings me to the main plotline - equally pointless. Donna was never given any real life/personality and no explanation was ever given for the last name. Despite the fact that she and twenty Amazons had just murdered the innocent men in Diana's care, not only do they get light sentences, but where the heck is Hephaestus? His 'sons' were all just slaughtered for no reason whatsoever, and yet he doesn't even appear in the book and apparently just accepts those who murdered his sons as his new apprentices.
Donna never came across as a threat to Diana imo. She created chaos, murdered a bunch of unarmed men, and the battle went nowhere fast.
Lastly, the backup story was just as terrible. I almost get the feeling that Derinoe was made old because it suited the storyline until someone pointed out to the Finch's the the Amazons are immortal, so this 'mysterious dagger that ages people' device was created. Hippolyta is once again written as a horrible person for turning her back on her sister, and the reason for 3000 years of Amazon hating and murdering every man who ever crosses their path is because one man who was being controlled by a woman poisoned their queen?
Man, that makes the Amazons look stupid and petty. At least before they had all suffered horribly from slavery and abuse at the hands of many willing men, but in this case, the guy was literally a tool of Hecate who....
Doesn't do anything else except leave?
Disappointing doesn't even begin to cover this for me.
You can't see it, but I'm giving you a standing ovation right now
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I haven't read it yet, and after reading the issue that the amazons killed all their brothers I am still not sure if I will buy it. So Diana cut off Donna's arm and Donna grew it back. So Donna really is just a magical creature. I'm not liking that.
I didn't like the idea of Donna being created from clay. If that origin wasn't good enough for Diana, it isn't good enough for Donna. I still wish that Donna was the second child of Zeus and Hippolyta sent to man's wold to protect her from Hera's wrath. This creature that the Finch's created could be a copy of the true Donna Troy, and that is why the creature has a first and last name, unlike any other amazon on the island. By the way was that ever addressed in the Annual? This creature could then become Dark Angle and the true Donna Troy could be brought back by a writer that actually likes the character and wants to use her in a productive way.
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If I were being really, really cynical I'd say the lame backstory for the Amazons was just done to make them less sympathetic deliberately. As someone said in another thread, many writers struggle with the Amazons having a backstory of oppression and slavery at the hands of men because it can come off as painting the entire male gender as consisting of monsters. Even when Perez used a god's influence to explain Heracles' behavior that god was a male. Here not only is the source of the Amazons anger female she uses a man to do it (making said man a victim of her's as well).
Yeah, it was kind of an awful choice by Finch. At least before, i could more easily assume that the Amazons' antipathy towards men resulted from many generations of mistreatment at the hands of men--the kind of mistreatment we'd expect the Amazons to receive from their patriarchal neighbors. Maybe that's still true, going by a comment or two in Divergence #1 (FCBD); but in this backup story it kind of looks like the Amazons had been getting some level of respect from the Spartans until Hecate intervened. The idea that they've shunned and resented men in general so long because o fthis--well, imagine if every society becme reclusive and militant just because a neighbor killed one of their leaders..
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Looks like someone got most of the spoilers I found interesting about this issue.
There were some interesting developments in this issue. Donna Troy has an amazing new ability. Wonder Woman describes her point of view of what it means to be an Amazon. Wonder Woman escaped being severely injured or killed. The roots of Derinoe's resentment is described, but she's a sad tale, but her tragedy seems to have selfless roots. The tragedy of Hippolyta's rise to the throne is described. However, despite witnessing betrayal, the Amazon's enmity against men is left even more confusing. The final fate of the underground aliens is not resolved.
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Hmm, I was thinking I would take a break after this issue, but, from the sounds of it, I'm not sure I want to bother with this issue.
Yeah, it was kind of an awful choice by Finch. At least before, i could more easily assume that the Amazons' antipathy towards men resulted from many generations of mistreatment at the hands of men--the kind of mistreatment we'd expect the Amazons to receive from their patriarchal neighbors. Maybe that's still true, going by a comment or two in Divergence #1 (FCBD); but in this backup story it kind of looks like the Amazons had been getting some level of respect from the Spartans until Hecate intervened. The idea that they've shunned and resented men in general so long because o fthis--well, imagine if every society becme reclusive and militant just because a neighbor killed one of their leaders..
I haven't read the issue and I'm not really disagreeing with you guys about how this could(/should) be much better. But, many nations have gone to war for attacks on their leaders. So, I'd be ok with a war against the Spartans (right?).
But, to take that single incident (as big as it is) as the lone reason for a "war" against ALL men across millennia? Yeah, that's over-board and simplistic.
Still, it's more than Azzarello gave us.
Last edited by Awonder; 06-03-2015 at 02:37 PM.
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Not interested in Wonder Woman being a thing, representing other less interesting beings, anymore.
Somehow, War Of The Gods made Diana a thing, and she's never recovered from that. While the Loebs and Chiazzarello runs came close to rehabilitating her, she's never fully returned to the playfully optimistic, slightly wiseacre, cowgirl-guru that we fell in love with, in the Golden Age. That wonderful girl, who LOVED being Wonder Woman, was replaced by a sexless, humorless thing or avatar or whatever, ..for whom being Wonder Woman or woman, at all, often seemed an unbearable burden. After WOGs, all of that defiant, can-do pluck of the 1940s was replaced by a cliched, somewhat pretentious 'heavy is the head that bears the crown' line that has proven to be quite popular with some fans.
If that is where Geoff Johns wants to take the comic, I'm not sure what difference it will make.
Last edited by Mel Dyer; 06-03-2015 at 02:54 PM.
The Prince of the Amazons challenges ROBOSEIDON in ..the WONDER BOY MOVIE!!!
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I got nothing.
............................ sorry, I was referring to my thoughts on this Wonder Woman run; not what I imagine
Meredith said to D C Comics when they asked what her 'plans' for Wonder Woman was.
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The passable -
- Some of what Diana had to say about what it meant to be an Amazon.
The bad -
- The "Stranded Alien Race" trope.
- Donna just gets tossed off the island.
- The idea that "Amazons will work the forge to atone as the male Amazons did." The male Amazons were orphans a god took in. How do you look at that and think "atone"?
Since I'm obviously just one voice in the choir, I'll leave it there.
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where the heck is Hephaestus? His 'sons' were all just slaughtered for no reason whatsoever, and yet he doesn't even appear in the book and apparently just accepts those who murdered his sons as his new apprentices.
I'm starting to wonder if this won't play into the next "Deathstroke"-related storyline.
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I was so sure that Wonder Woman, after being killed or almost killed in battle with Donna/Hecate, was going to to co-opt the Termite Queen's power to defeat Hecate, ..freeing Donna...
Isn't that what WW #40's cover was hinting would happen? No..?
Not happy with the resolution of the Termite Queen story or the Donna story. Didn't find either intriguing, and I don't think I want to read about these characters, anymore.
The Prince of the Amazons challenges ROBOSEIDON in ..the WONDER BOY MOVIE!!!
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Still haven't picked it up yet but everyone keeps mentioning Donna growing back this arm.. Someone post it please?
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I was so sure that Wonder Woman, after being killed or almost killed in battle with Donna/Hecate, was going to to co-opt the Termite Queen's power to defeat Hecate, ..freeing Donna...
Isn't that what WW #40's cover was hinting would happen? No..?
Not happy with the resolution of the Termite Queen story or the Donna story. Didn't find either intriguing, and I don't think I want to read about these characters, anymore.
I'm still trying to figure out why the Termite Queen was even involved ... what was the point of that storyline? Just to show her doing something useful-ish with the JL?
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Still haven't picked it up yet but everyone keeps mentioning Donna growing back this arm.. Someone post it please?
Picks up severed arm and holds it near the cut. Stitches itself back together "Clayface" style.
Pretty lame-o.
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Picks up severed arm and holds it near the cut. Stitches itself back together "Clayface" style.
Pretty lame-o.
... What? Kinda like Imhotep when he stuck back on his hand.
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GA: "She moves fast"..
F:"Compared to who?"
GA:"Hold her!"
F:"Does it look like I'm not trying!?"
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Still haven't picked it up yet but everyone keeps mentioning Donna growing back this arm.. Someone post it please?
Here ya go ... she actually re-attached rather than re-grew it
Donna Arm.jpg
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While I'm not really the biggest fan of the "I'm going to drop the book." angle, this really was the first time I thought "This is getting bad enough that it might not be worth it.".
Hopefully, the next arc starts with some truly brilliant writing.
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Here's what David had to say on Twitter about the alien plot-line supposedly being resolved in this annual:
Vince Gattuso @vince_gattuso 5h5 hours ago
@dfinchartist I loved the annual but I have to ask, is the plot withe aliens really over or is there more to come?
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David Finch @dfinchartist 1h1 hour ago
@vince_gattuso don't want to say there'll be more, but nothing's ever that easy in comics
5:46 PM - 3 Jun 2015 · Details
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While I don't want to say "So what?", don't get into a hurry, David.
No one is really clamoring for you do go into detail on that mess of a "Stranded Alien Race" storyline.
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Here's what David had to say on Twitter about the alien plot-line supposedly being resolved in this annual:
Vince Gattuso @vince_gattuso 5h5 hours ago
@dfinchartist I loved the annual but I have to ask, is the plot withe aliens really over or is there more to come?
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David Finch @dfinchartist 1h1 hour ago
@vince_gattuso don't want to say there'll be more, but nothing's ever that easy in comics
5:46 PM - 3 Jun 2015 · Details
clearly it's not that easy for team Finch ... this has been a hot mess and this tweet just seems to point to more hot and more mess. SIGH
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Finch continued to disappoint - this was a terrible ending to a lousy story.
The alien plotline - what was the point? The aliens were trapped so they had to murder people? Did I miss the 'why' of that part? And to forgive them mass slaughter and send them home just seemed idiotic to me, especially in light of the Amazons being punished.
Which brings me to the main plotline - equally pointless. Donna was never given any real life/personality and no explanation was ever given for the last name. Despite the fact that she and twenty Amazons had just murdered the innocent men in Diana's care, not only do they get light sentences, but where the heck is Hephaestus? His 'sons' were all just slaughtered for no reason whatsoever, and yet he doesn't even appear in the book and apparently just accepts those who murdered his sons as his new apprentices.
Donna never came across as a threat to Diana imo. She created chaos, murdered a bunch of unarmed men, and the battle went nowhere fast.
Lastly, the backup story was just as terrible. I almost get the feeling that Derinoe was made old because it suited the storyline until someone pointed out to the Finch's the the Amazons are immortal, so this 'mysterious dagger that ages people' device was created. Hippolyta is once again written as a horrible person for turning her back on her sister, and the reason for 3000 years of Amazon hating and murdering every man who ever crosses their path is because one man who was being controlled by a woman poisoned their queen?
Man, that makes the Amazons look stupid and petty. At least before they had all suffered horribly from slavery and abuse at the hands of many willing men, but in this case, the guy was literally a tool of Hecate who....
Doesn't do anything else except leave?
Disappointing doesn't even begin to cover this for me.
I must concur with most of this, I'm afraid.
I do appreciate that Donna has been made redeemable. I'm glad that the Lasso was what did it while the sword proved ineffective.
I appreciate that Diana punished the murderer Amazons in a rather fitting way. Killing them all would have been their way. Letting them spend their lives atoning for their crime is a very Wonder Woman solution.
But, that's just about all the good I can say about this story. Even those things that I liked could have been handled much better. And the stuff Gaelforce lists is all very true. The alien story was pointless and made no sense. Donna definitely never appeared to be an ultimate enemy for Diana. And one act of betrayal by one man is a piss-poor reason for the Amazons to hate all men. Now, I suppose it could be established that this one act was merely one of a series of crimes committed against the Amazons. But that will have to be established later. Right now, it's a crap explanation.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Perez had done the sex pirate thing with the Amazons, I would've been much more accepting of the concept. After what Perez established the Amazons as going through, a universal hatred and distrust of men would make a lot more sense. This thing, however? Not nearly good enough.
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Here ya go ... she actually re-attached rather than re-grew it
Donna Arm.jpg
So... can I call her imhotep now? I cant even find the gif of him doing that.
On a side note, When I pick this up i may give some thoughts.
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Ah, yes. The re-attached limb thing. I forgot about that.
Not a fan of it, to be quite honest. It makes Donna seem more inhuman and golem-like. I'm just waiting for another writer to latch onto that concept and put Donna through a million "Pinocchio" storylines, or stories where she can be reduced to a lump of clay with casual ease.
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Is this the most nearly unanimous issue discussion thread that we've ever had?
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Ah, yes. The re-attached limb thing. I forgot about that.
Not a fan of it, to be quite honest. It makes Donna seem more inhuman and golem-like. I'm just waiting for another writer to latch onto that concept and put Donna through a million "Pinocchio" storylines, or stories where she can be reduced to a lump of clay with casual ease.
ugh! please don't give anyone ideas!
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Is this the most nearly unanimous issue discussion thread that we've ever had?
Look, I don't really want to be this "down" on it. That said, it was worse than whatever "worst case scenario" was in my head.
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I'm still trying to figure out why the Termite Queen was even involved ... what was the point of that storyline? Just to show her doing something useful-ish with the JL?
Don't get me wrong...
I'm GRATEFUL for Mrs. Finch's updating and revival of the Termite Queen, if only because it was the only break we had from her portrayal of the dreary, unforgiving misery that is Diana's life, as an Amazon, and the drudgery of her life, as Wonder Woman. Comparitively, during the Roy Thomas days, I couldn't wait for Diana to spin into action, as Wonder Woman, hop into her I-Jet and streak off to Paradise, for counsel with Queen Mother; now, both seem to be so unbearable for her, ..that I don't know what to make of any of it. The Termite Queen, whom I hope will return in the pages of WW, Sm/WW or JL, was a breath of fresh, ..subterranean air..?
If that makes any sense.
Seriously, a rogues gallery, with Cheetah, Doctor Cyber, pre-Crisis Silver Swan, the Adjudicator, Circe and a Termite Queen ..is looking pretty impressive. Great supervillain revival and best thing Merrill Finch has done, yet.
The Prince of the Amazons challenges ROBOSEIDON in ..the WONDER BOY MOVIE!!!
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Yeah, because Donna grows her arm back after Diana cuts it off. But Diana did try using a bladed weapon before she tried the lasso.
-Diana cuts Donna's arm off -I'm sure there'll be talks for years to come how awful and aggressive it was of Diana- since she couldn't banter Donna down. But since the sword didn't work either, she uses a magic lasso... Why not use the lasso first? Also, why not try to say something useful?
There is precedence for it. She cut off the centaurs arm in WW#1.
relax Wonder Woman has a long history of taking off her enemies arms. Remember that time she thought Cyborg was Cheetah
![]()
for a God of War I'd say that is some pretty good restraint
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Disappointing doesn't even begin to cover this for me.
I read it, not expecting much.
I do have to admire the relatively energetic storytelling, proof of the wonders that a little exposition can do. Finch has wrapped up her first arc in -- what is it --- five issues? That in itself deserves applause, given the history.
More important, I do think that Finch is trying to clean up the mess and turn this book into a Wonder Woman title. She's rather heavy handed, but there's a whole lot of dung to be swept away and a lot of world-building that's been neglected.
If she plays her cards right, maybe the zombie aliens can give Wonder Woman an invisible plane.
Is this the most nearly unanimous issue discussion thread that we've ever had?
Hate to be a spoilsport. Not going to say that I liked or enjoyed it, but I appreciated it. The mess on Paradise Island is finally being dealt with, ham-handedly, but there you have it. The pace of the storytelling is vastly improved.
Wonder Woman needs a life away from the island, separate from Superman's, but still in the USA, too. Her own supporting cast needs to return. And she needs an adventure without any gods, mythical monsters, or Justice Leaguers in it.
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David Finch @dfinchartist 12h12 hours ago
Really proud of what we have accomplished with this book so far. I think this is our best issue to date....
If this was the best...
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Where the heck have they ever said the alien queen is the Termite Queen?
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I read it, not expecting much.
I do have to admire the relatively energetic storytelling, proof of the wonders that a little exposition can do. Finch has wrapped up her first arc in -- what is it --- five issues? That in itself deserves applause, given the history.
More important, I do think that Finch is trying to clean up the mess and turn this book into a Wonder Woman title. She's rather heavy handed, but there's a whole lot of dung to be swept away and a lot of world-building that's been neglected.
If she plays her cards right, maybe the zombie aliens can give Wonder Woman an invisible plane.
Hate to be a spoilsport. Not going to say that I liked or enjoyed it, but I appreciated it. The mess on Paradise Island is finally being dealt with, ham-handedly, but there you have it. The pace of the storytelling is vastly improved.
Wonder Woman needs a life away from the island, separate from Superman's, but still in the USA, too. Her own supporting cast needs to return. And she needs an adventure without any gods, mythical monsters, or Justice Leaguers in it.
I really like your last suggestion. A story like that is long overdue in this title. Give me a story with Diana, Steve, and Etta hunting down the Cheetah or Aegeus perhaps.
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Where the heck have they ever said the alien queen is the Termite Queen?
I thought about this, but I didn't want to come off like a Grinch.
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I really like your last suggestion. A story like that is long overdue in this title. Give me a story with Diana, Steve, and Etta hunting down the Cheetah or Aegeus perhaps.
That's the thing. While I know that's what the two of you are hoping for, isn't the next storyline "Ares/Deathstroke Tries Killing An Olympian"?
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Hate to be a spoilsport. Not going to say that I liked or enjoyed it, but I appreciated it.
LOL. That's quite alright. True unanimity would probably get boring anyway. I'm glad that you, and at least a couple of others around here, found something to appreciate in this issue.
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There's nothing I can add that hasn't already been stated-- and besides, that would require I read this issue again. Utterly abysmal. I'm sure Meredith Finch is a very nice person, but this must be the worst Wonder Woman story I've ever read.
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I enjoyed the Finches' initial arc a great deal. I'm satisfied with how WONDER WOMAN is going. I can read the book now and actually enjoy it whereas for 3 years I just skimmed it out of a sense of loyalty to the character who wasn't even driving story in her own title.
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Where the heck have they ever said the alien queen is the Termite Queen?
I have no idea who coined the term, but I think it works ... Maybe just because I find it funny
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Honestly you all make me don't want to buy or read this issue anymore. I guess i am dodging a bullet here.
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I have no idea who coined the term, but I think it works ... Maybe just because I find it funny
The Termite Queen is an old villain from Wonder Woman #58-- like, 1950s old. If anyone coined the term it was Robert Kanigher.
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Well... this was terrible.
Bug-people plot: Honestly, wtf was the point of this? I could easily have accepted them being part of this story if they had been shown to have somekind of connection to the ongoings on Paradise Island, that they were meant to draw Diana away. But so far no, it was just padding that only served to make Diana look mostly useless. And what about the 1000+ people they killed? Free pass... and a ticket home.
Paradise Island: What was that thing Didio said he disliked? Ah yes, talking heads. Basically that was all it was, a lot of talking with a fight going on in the background. And worst of all; it was weightless. I've read books where everything comes together and you could feel the tension rising off the page, with this however, you couldn't. There was nothing in this that said it mattered, least of all in the case of Donna being the 'ultimate nemesis'.
Back up story: Better looking, but same shallow writing. Makes Hippolyta look terrible, doesn't give a hoot of a reason why Hecate does what she does.
Arc: 2/10
Badly written and drawn, waste of time, money and characters.
Dropped until improvements are made.
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the end to the whole insect queen thing was... just, there are so many un-PC words I cannot use on here for it. I hope it's not finished and there's some twist as opposed to 'we killed people, you killed people, let's hope again, *tear' ughhhh. Lazy lazy writing if that's how it wrapped up.
That said, the battle between Donna and Diana was awesome - as was Diana's speech and reasoning with Donna. Got the character down perfectly in that scene
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I didn't dislike it like you guys. I thought the battle was awesome and I thought that the whole use Donna for the future is solid. It's better than whatever origin she had in pre-Flashpoint.
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I think in the second story, it would've made more sense to have Circe be the witch that had turned Derinoe old and had pitted the Spartans against the Amazons (she was, after all, slighted by Hippolyta and would be out for revenge... why the heck would Hecate get involved? She's not evil for the sake of evil in mythology). It just doesn't make sense for Hecate to have been involved, and it seems like the Finches tried to shoehorn a god into their story to make it more similar to Azzarello's run. I'm fine with Hecate being involved in Donna's origin as Derinoe seemed like an old witch anyway, but it was bizarre how she went from village to village causing chaos.
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OK I bought it and read it. I must say I didn't like it. For me everything seemed rushed. It was like the writer was tired of these two story lines and just wanted to get them over with, so they can move on to another story.
The bug people just didn't interest me from the beginning. I don't need to see the Justice League in Wonder Woman. I buy the Justice League book to read Justice League.
The story of Donna I hated from the beginning. I'm a Donna Troy fan, so this story making her a creature of clay and making her an enemy of Diana's is very hard to swallow. As some one else pointed out her being able to attach her arm back after it was cut off makes this character less human and even more unlike the Donna Troy of the old universes.
The fight between Diana and Donna was very anti climatic. The only part I did like about the fight is the speech that Diana gave as to what it is to be an amazon. Unfortunately, we have not seen the amazons behave the way Diana says they are to behave. The artist and writer also missed the boat when Diana wrapped the magic lasso around Donna to show her the truth. That page could have been so more dramatic. Donna could have been shown screaming in agony, tears running from her eyes as she is forced to see the truth that she has been lied to since the beginning of her creation and finally realizing that she killed so many innocent men. Instead the artist makes her look unemotional just staring down at the ground.
I am glad that the amazons that took part in the killing of the men were sent to serve Hephaestus. Donna banished off the island and sent to a prison on Mt. Olympus just makes me sad. Again this writer destroyed this character. The second princess of paradise is now a war criminal. I'm just sad with what has become of the Wonder Woman book.
On a side note I did read the Justice League title also. It was very good. But I'm confused. In it Diana says she is the only child born on an island of Amazons. Is this a reboot of Diana's origin all ready? I thought there were other children on the island since the Amazons seduced and killed sailors to have children. So why does this story say that Diana is the only child on the island?
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I think in the second story, it would've made more sense to have Circe be the witch that had turned Derinoe old and had pitted the Spartans against the Amazons (she was, after all, slighted by Hippolyta and would be out for revenge... why the heck would Hecate get involved? She's not evil for the sake of evil in mythology). It just doesn't make sense for Hecate to have been involved, and it seems like the Finches tried to shoehorn a god into their story to make it more similar to Azzarello's run. I'm fine with Hecate being involved in Donna's origin as Derinoe seemed like an old witch anyway, but it was bizarre how she went from village to village causing chaos.
The Finchs wanted to use Circe in this story but were denied due to Circe being used concurrently in Superman/Wonder Woman. As to why the Joker can appear in multiple books in a month and Circe can't appear in 2 is beyond me.
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I tried Azzarello Wonder Woman. Sorry didn't like it
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I think in the second story, it would've made more sense to have Circe be the witch that had turned Derinoe old and had pitted the Spartans against the Amazons (she was, after all, slighted by Hippolyta and would be out for revenge... why the heck would Hecate get involved? She's not evil for the sake of evil in mythology). It just doesn't make sense for Hecate to have been involved, and it seems like the Finches tried to shoehorn a god into their story to make it more similar to Azzarello's run. I'm fine with Hecate being involved in Donna's origin as Derinoe seemed like an old witch anyway, but it was bizarre how she went from village to village causing chaos.
Circe would have made more sense, for all the reasons you give.
But looking at Hecate, in the Perez days she was empowering Circe to keep the gender wars going. I am not quite sure how that adds up exactly since I seem to remember the reason for her bitterness was that she had been married to Hades, but was replaced with Persephone.
I could imagine Finch going along with that and just make her hate people who are eternally youthful, like the Amazons and why she'd want to turn Hippolyta into a crone. Her plaguing of Sparta could simply be so she could get the Amazons into the open... or to the mainland.
But all that doesn't make much sense either, if the monster we saw shambling towards the Romans (wasn't Sparta ruined by then?) was Hecate. Neither did it look like the one we saw glimpses of early on.
Anyways, it's all open to reinterpretation, for all we know it could have been Circe all along but making people think she was Hecate.
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I didn't dislike it like you guys. I thought the battle was awesome and I thought that the whole use Donna for the future is solid. It's better than whatever origin she had in pre-Flashpoint.
What exactly is better about it? I keep hearing this but I genuinely don't get it.
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OK I bought it and read it. I must say I didn't like it. For me everything seemed rushed. It was like the writer was tired of these two story lines and just wanted to get them over with, so they can move on to another story.
The bug people just didn't interest me from the beginning. I don't need to see the Justice League in Wonder Woman. I buy the Justice League book to read Justice League.
The story of Donna I hated from the beginning. I'm a Donna Troy fan, so this story making her a creature of clay and making her an enemy of Diana's is very hard to swallow. As some one else pointed out her being able to attach her arm back after it was cut off makes this character less human and even more unlike the Donna Troy of the old universes.
The fight between Diana and Donna was very anti climatic. The only part I did like about the fight is the speech that Diana gave as to what it is to be an amazon. Unfortunately, we have not seen the amazons behave the way Diana says they are to behave. The artist and writer also missed the boat when Diana wrapped the magic lasso around Donna to show her the truth. That page could have been so more dramatic. Donna could have been shown screaming in agony, tears running from her eyes as she is forced to see the truth that she has been lied to since the beginning of her creation and finally realizing that she killed so many innocent men. Instead the artist makes her look unemotional just staring down at the ground.
I am glad that the amazons that took part in the killing of the men were sent to serve Hephaestus. Donna banished off the island and sent to a prison on Mt. Olympus just makes me sad. Again this writer destroyed this character. The second princess of paradise is now a war criminal. I'm just sad with what has become of the Wonder Woman book.
On a side note I did read the Justice League title also. It was very good. But I'm confused. In it Diana says she is the only child born on an island of Amazons. Is this a reboot of Diana's origin all ready? I thought there were other children on the island since the Amazons seduced and killed sailors to have children. So why does this story say that Diana is the only child on the island?
I agree with all your points. But, at least it doesn't seem like all is lost for Donna. The issue after next, she's apparently escaped or been released from prison and is in Man's World, apparently on her path to redemption. She's also wearing an outfit that at least speaks of her pre-Flashpoint fashion sense, if nothing else. It's still a crappy origin for her, and I don't know how long it'll be before she even starts to resemble the Donna we knew and loved (if it ever happens at all.) But at least she won't be rotting in prison for long.
As far as Justice League? We're not quite sure what to make of that. It could be an example of DC's new "story trumps continuity" policy, and Johns is basically choosing to do his own thing with Diana's origins. Or it could be that Johns is going to pull of a partial retcon and get rid of the sex raids and let Diana resume her role as the only child on the island. Tough to say right now. Only time will tell.
What exactly is better about it? I keep hearing this but I genuinely don't get it.
I've heard this too, and it makes no sense to me at all.
The one thing I can say that this origin has over her other origin(s) is that it's clean and coherent. If you asked me to give you Donna Troy's origin story pre-Flashpoint, I would've had to give you this long-winded, footnote-laden explanation in order to sum it all up. This origin? I can do it in less than a minute: "Donna Troy is a woman created in a dark magical ritual from the clay remains of Wonder Woman's mother. She was created to usurp Wonder Woman as Queen of the Amazons by an Amazon extremist group. Diana reformed her with the Lasso of Truth, and Donna is currently on the path to redemption."
That's it. Nice and efficient.
Of course "efficient" is hardly synonymous with "good."
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I agree with all your points. But, at least it doesn't seem like all is lost for Donna. The issue after next, she's apparently escaped or been released from prison and is in Man's World, apparently on her path to redemption. She's also wearing an outfit that at least speaks of her pre-Flashpoint fashion sense, if nothing else. It's still a crappy origin for her, and I don't know how long it'll be before she even starts to resemble the Donna we knew and loved (if it ever happens at all.) But at least she won't be rotting in prison for long.
Donna needs to be treated the same way she's always been treated. The question of her origin just gets swept under the rug.
It's actually a great thing in this environment to have a superhero without an origin. Too many "villains" have personal vendettas against their hero adversaries rather than independent motivations. Usually this ties in to the hero's origin or past.
As far as Justice League? We're not quite sure what to make of that. It could be an example of DC's new "story trumps continuity" policy, and Johns is basically choosing to do his own thing with Diana's origins. Or it could be that Johns is going to pull of a partial retcon and get rid of the sex raids and let Diana resume her role as the only child on the island. Tough to say right now. Only time will tell.
Anything that removes sex piracy from the equation is a good thing.
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Legitimate question. Anyone notice her eyes went from brown to blue again? And i'm glad Diana talked some sense into her.
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Donna needs to be treated the same way she's always been treated. The question of her origin just gets swept under the rug.
It's actually a great thing in this environment to have a superhero without an origin. Too many "villains" have personal vendettas against their hero adversaries rather than independent motivations. Usually this ties in to the hero's origin or past.
That would be my first choice, to be sure. Donna could really use the "Batgirl" treatment. Just don't talk about her sickening past until a lot of time has passed. Works for me.
Unfortunately, the Finches are still writing her for a while yet, so I doubt that'll happen right away. Although, I will say that seeing as how their run is being almost universally panned? I really don't see their run lasting much longer.
Still hoping that Johns will decide to come in and take on Diana's book. If Justice League is any indication, I'd say the man could work miracles with Diana, Donna, Cassie, Diana's rogues, you name it.
Anything that removes sex piracy from the equation is a good thing.
Amen to that.
I'm cool with a total retcon. Or at least changing the way the sex raids end. Honestly, the sex raids don't bother me at all. It's the completely unnecessary killing of the men afterward that's the problem. The idea that the Amazons go out every so often, seduce men into a big orgy, and then return home to deliver any children that result? Perfectly fine with me. Even the selling of the boys isn't that bad, if it could be established that the Amazons knew that Hephaestus was treating them well.
And if Johns isn't retconning, just doing his own thing? Fine by me, too. That just means Justice League will become my new go-to book for my Wonder Woman fix.
Legitimate question. Anyone notice her eyes went from brown to blue again? And i'm glad Diana talked some sense into her.
I did notice that, yes. It's like Donna broke free of Derinoe's programming and became her own person. Hopefully that's the last time Donna's eyes will change. I like her having the same eyes as her sister.
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