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Tony DiWonderful • 6 hours ago see moreSo its better than Return of the Jedi but not as good as Star Trek 09?
I didnt even need to read the rest.
NoQuarter Tony DiWonderful • 6 hours ago see moreYeah, that's just disturbing. I liked Trek 09 well enough, but it sure as fucking hell wasn't better than RotJ. Hell, as far as I'm concerned, everything that takes place in the Emperor's Throne Room is superior to anything that has occurred in any Star Trek film, Wrath of Khan included.Tony DiWonderful NoQuarter • 6 hours ago see moreI said yesterday that the bit where Luke storms out of the shadows to unleash on his father is one of the high spots of the originals, if not the highest.
Frimmel Tony DiWonderful • 6 hours ago see more"Never. I'll never turn to the dark side. You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me." Any sins Jedi might have committed are washed away right there. It's the whole point of the three movies. It's the payoff all these copycats are looking for when they try to turn everything into a trilogy. You ever notice how that line doesn't really get mashed up very often?
gun will travel Frimmel • 2 hours ago see moreThere are so many great things about that scene! Emotionally charged, hand amputation mirroring ESB, Most of all, you're not really sure if the Dark Side hasn't started taking hold of Luke, despite saying he'll never turn. Look at the facts about the duel with Vader in ROTJ:
Luke was dressed not in beige and brown robes like a Jedi, ibut in a black bodysuit like a Sith,
"Like my father before me" - Does that mean youthful Anakin the Jedi protector, or older Anakin who DID TURN to the Dark Side?
"Your hate has made you strong" - Luke's power comes from fear and rage, not from meditative flowing of the Force. The Emperor has perceived that Luke has started on the path to the Dark Side!
Turning to the Dark Side is a long process, not instantaneous. Anakin became a child-killer when still a Jedi, and even after he became Darth Vader his first thought was profound sadness over Padme's death. Looking back at that scene, I am convinced that Luke has one foot in the Dark Side, and I expect he'll still be struggling - if not turned - in the new movies.
Red Leader Frimmel • 2 hours ago see moreThe "I am a Jedi, like my father before me" gets me every time.
Dork Tony DiWonderful • 5 hours ago see moreAbsolutely. That right there is the emotional climax of the entire 6
movies so far. That is the culmination of EVERYTHING that we had been
building up to.
The choral music as he attacks gives me chills.
Lando Lakes Dork • 4 hours ago see moreThe cool thing was up until then Williams had a) mostly avoided music in the lightsaber duels and b) had completely avoided human voices in the score. To have that come in at that point is amazing.
And as they point out in the commentary, the sheer oddness of having a battle between two people clad mostly in black against a mostly black background is almost surreal.Red Leader Dork • 2 hours ago see moreAnd the Imperial march on the piano while Anakin dies is also perfect.
Creasy Bear Red Leader • an hour ago see moreThe music is perfect, and for me, the intercutting of Lando, Han, and Luke in the final half hour is absolutely perfect. Every final shot of a scene propels smoothly into the next.
Lando Lakes Tony DiWonderful • 4 hours ago see moreROTJ is a movie that has only improved upon multiple viewings for me.NoQuarter Tony DiWonderful • 6 hours ago see moreIf I had to pick my top five favorite moments of any movie, I think that scene would probably be included. It's just magical.
Celicynd Tony DiWonderful • 5 hours ago see moreYea, I most definitely agree... usually end up watching that scene a few times every time I decide to put Jedi on.
Athelstane NoQuarter • 5 hours ago see moreYeah. This was my immediate reaction, too. STAR TREK was diverting, but it's not really better than ROTJ, least of the STAR WARS O.T. though it might be.
Patient O.T. NoQuarter • 2 hours ago see moreOnce again- Star Wars and Star Trek aren't rivals. Star Trek is Science Fiction, and Star Wars is Fantasy.NoQuarter Patient O.T. • 29 minutes ago see moreFair enough. It was not my intention to reignite another Star Trek vs. Star Wars Fight (I'm a big fan of both). I was just disagreeing with Herc's assessment in as strong of terms as possible.
Christopher Zeigler NoQuarter • 12 minutes ago see moreThese are based on things called "opinions" and your mileage may vary
dolphinsinthejacuzzi NoQuarter • 2 hours ago see moreAgreed. Honestly, RotJ was not a bad movie, despite the prevailing conventional wisdom. In fact, take out the ewoks, and replace them with wookies (the original idea, before Lucas' need for marketable toys overtook his good sense), and you would have had a movie that was nearly as good as the first two.
Even as it was, it's a great movie, just one that falters a bit in the final act. And I agree that Abrams' first Trek was unfairly blasted. It was actually a pretty good movie, IMO (although possibly not a good Trek movie, at least, certainly by Trekkers' standards). But superior to RotJ? Give me a break.
Jerry Tony DiWonderful • 5 hours ago see moreAgreed. I stopped reading as soon as Herc implied that Star Trek 09 was somehow better than Return of the Jedi. Star Trek 09 was a good movie upon first viewing but after that I realized how much it fucking sucked with the hole baby kirk bit, allergic reaction and bones chasing after him bit, spock Uhura romance bit, kirk's waterslide tube escape ... if you think Star Trek 09 was great watch Mr. Plinkett's redlettermedia review of it and you'll change your mind pretty quickly.Patient O.T. Jerry • 2 hours ago see moreSnarky sarcasm isn't a review or information. You must think The Daily Show actually has information. Snarky Sarcasm is just useless.
J. Accuse Tony DiWonderful • 6 hours ago see moreI hazard to say that ROTJ had better villains that Trek 09.
hercules w/ Ban Hammer J. Accuse • 6 hours ago see more"Come over the the dark side!"
"Never!"
"The dark side is your destiny!"
"I'm not like you!"
"Dark side!"
"No!"
I'm trying to remember my favorite part. The Ewoks, the unnecessary incest, or the removal of Vader's ballsack? So hard to choose!
Matt Underwood hercules • 6 hours ago see moreThe space battle, Vader's turn, Leia's bikini? So hard to choose!
Star Trek... Kirk's face having an allergic reaction, time travel again, super transporters? So hard to choose!
fzammetti Matt Underwood • 5 hours ago see moreOk now, let's be fair, the allergic reaction bit was actually pretty funny... but really I guess just because of the "numb tongue" line, but that was a damned pretty great line.Matt Underwood hercules • 4 hours ago see moreI agree Jedi is by far the weakest of the first three, but I'm just shocked you'd like such a forgettable by the numbers movie as Star Trek 09 better.
Athelstane hercules • 5 hours ago see moreNot buyin', Herc. Even with the Ewoks, ROTJ has much greater payoff than STAR TREK did.
It would be interesting to post a user poll here on which film regular readers here think is better.
FrankiePinewater hercules • 4 hours ago see moreRemoval of Vader's ballsack? That happened in Ep. III. Right? Obi-Wan removed an arm, two legs, balls and penis with one swing of the lightsaber.Matt Underwood FrankiePinewater • 2 hours ago see moreNo, his ballsack was removed in Ep II when he was rolling down the hills with his girlfriend when he wasn't crying about his mommy.Athelstane FrankiePinewater • 4 hours ago see morePerhaps Luke was more deft with that stroke than we thought.
Stalkeye hercules • 4 hours ago see moreThat's OK Herc, There's always Star Trek beyond in 2016. :P
Hayde Christiansson hercules • 2 hours ago see moreEh, Kirk just happens to be banished to the planet where Spock AND Scotty are, wowLando Lakes hercules • 4 hours ago see morethe best space battle up to that point (and one that has rarely been matched)?
Milo hercules • 4 hours ago see moreEwoks are really the only significant down side of RotJ. They're a BIG problem, and they definitely bring down the whole movie, but any other flaw in that picture is minuscule by comparison. Yeah the sibling thing sucked, yeah Vader going soft on his boy was lamentable (we did have Palpatine to replace him, though), but the brother-sister thing had been foreshadowed in ep. 5 and the whole production still felt genuinely like a Star Wars movie.
Millennials Trek had time travel (the cheapest of plot devices, and pretty much always inviting of plot holes galore -- really works well only in comedies), the total destruction of Vulcan (this is supposed to be science fiction, not fantasy like Star Wars; please explain how this is possible and how the planet would cease to exist in mere minutes), and an overall approach to the source material that reveled in a clearly superficial appreciation of the original TV series. Trek '09 had a great time mimicking and lampooning the look and feel of the TV show, and even a few of the main characters, but beyond that, it felt almost nothing like a Star Trek story (which stands to reason, since the TV episodes were written by cops, war veterans, and actual sci-fi authors, and this new stuff was penned by a couple of gen-X hipsters).
PKFind J. Accuse • 4 hours ago see moreThat's because the biggest villain in ST'09 was Kirk's allergic reaction.
Atwotee Effacheess Tony DiWonderful • 2 hours ago see moreYep. I wish I could upvote this a few more times. What a crock.
Hitman Humperdinck Tony DiWonderful • 4 hours ago see moreTotally. Bash Ewoks all you want but I'd watch Jedi over 09 Star Trek any day.
D o o D Tony DiWonderful • 4 hours ago see moreyeah that statement is so weird. I liked Star Trek 09 but only because it brought life back into the franchise. Better than ROTJ? I don't think so
666mph Tony DiWonderful • 3 hours ago see moreThank You! This guy needs to GTFO with that nonsense.
MaskedManAICN Tony DiWonderful • 4 hours ago see moreI reverse those myself, Jedi was much better than Star Trek 09.
Carl LaFong Tony DiWonderful • 5 hours ago see moreBoth films have several strengths, and a great many weaknesses, and I'll leave it at that. Neither is a remarkable representation of their respective series.hercules w/ Ban Hammer Tony DiWonderful • 6 hours ago see moreThen don't read the rest of this either:
79% positive: Return of the Jedi (1983)
95% positive: Star Trek (2009)
LaRusso hercules • 6 hours ago see moreMaybe standards aren't quite as high or as strong as they used to be. How about that, chief?hercules w/ Ban Hammer LaRusso • 6 hours ago see moreHang on there, junior. In my experience the older movies on RT get inflated scores.
This owes to the scoreboard being flooded with critics determined to raise the scores of childhood favorites.LaRusso hercules • 5 hours ago see moreSorry, skippy, but most of those reviews featured on the Rotten Tomatoes "Jedi" page are attributed to legit journalists and critics. Some are from contemporary writers for website, but no doubt those contemporary writers are included in the "Star Trek" aggregate, and no doubt they would be kind to geek fare like a "Star Trek" reboot. So your logic breaks down right there.
Oh, yeah, and your logic also fails because you say that "Force Awakens" is not good as 2009 "Star Trek," but "Trek" only had a 95% Rotten Tomatoes score while "Force Awakens" currently has 97%. So by your logic, "Force Awakens" is the better film, yet you call 2009 "Star Trek" the better film. Which is it, man? Come on, try to be a little consistent for the love of God and all that's good in the world! We're counting on you, Herc, for your affluence and sterling expertise! We need you, man!hercules w/ Ban Hammer LaRusso • 5 hours ago see moreThere's no denying I'm in the minority on that Trek 2009 v Ep VII front. I just lack the inclination to whine about it.
Pawpr1nt hercules • 5 hours ago see moreShit guys, I wanted to see where you'd take it after 'chief', 'junior', and 'skippy' - you broke the chain!LaRusso hercules • 5 hours ago see moreHere's something interesting. I was looking at the reviews on the RT Jedi page, and the Time Magazine critic said "Jedi" is better and more satisfying than "Empire." Makes me wonder if fans are too hard on "Jedi," which I always considered to be on the level of "Empire."Tony DiWonderful LaRusso • 5 hours ago see moreId say Empire is a better film overall but it doesnt have the emotional punch of Return of the Jedi.
Sadly that punch will somewhat be diminished now we know it was a hollow victory.
They should have left the fireworks in the box.Pawpr1nt Tony DiWonderful • 4 hours ago see moreEmpire was a better film as a whole, but THAT ROTJ ending... You won't find an ending like that in the text books - you just can't teach it. Amazing stuff.
Dr. Emmett L. Brown Tony DiWonderful • 5 hours ago see moreHow is it a hollow victory? The effort was not for nothing. Winning a war only buys you peace for a period of time. Time moves on and new threats emerge. Good and evil are eternal.Hayde Christiansson Dr. Emmett L. Brown • 2 hours ago see moreTo be fair, it seems the Resistance is separate from the New Republic and the Resistance is meant to fight the First Order, because the New Republic is ignoring the threat the First Order poses. I actually think that is a cool plot.Tony DiWonderful Dr. Emmett L. Brown • 5 hours ago see moreIll let you know when Ive seen The Force Awakens.
eBob Tony DiWonderful • 5 hours ago see moreStarring Melissa McCarthy as the very big box of holding the fireworks?
LaRusso Dr. Emmett L. Brown • 5 hours ago see moreGreat Scott! That's high praise none the less! I just love the final confrontation between Luke, Vader, and the Emperor. It's riveting!Dr. Emmett L. Brown LaRusso • 5 hours ago see moreHow anyone cannot agree on that boggles the mind. Incredible scene. But I'm sure there are some who will differ.
Robert Martinez hercules • 4 hours ago see moreSorry, but that is what is known as "anecdotal" evidence. Unless, of course, you have access to all the data.
Tony DiWonderful hercules • 5 hours ago see moreInstead of pulling out Rotten Tomatoes , why dont you explain why you think 09 is better than ROTJ?Pawpr1nt Tony DiWonderful • 4 hours ago see moreI can't even see how that works on an emotional level - ROTJ is a culmination of 6 years of emotional investment, if you're a fan, and a damn good film to boot; I had no emotional investment in the ST reboot characters because they were to all intents and purposes 'new'. No contest.hercules w/ Ban Hammer Tony DiWonderful • 5 hours ago see moreI'm trying to tell you now it's SABOTAGE!!!!
We are all prisoners of our own taste, of course, but the top two things I HATED about ROTJ, I think, were The teddy-bear resistance fighters and using incest to resolve a really promising love triangle.Pawpr1nt hercules • 4 hours ago see moreHad this discussion before - yeah, the ewoks looked like teddy bears, and many were played for 'cute', but these are the same furry little savages who were going to roast and feast on 3 humans and a wookiee; were shown beating stormtroopers to death with stone axes; and crushing skulls with rocks. 'Ewoks' is a tired criticism of ROTJ; more valid is trying to work out exactly what the fuck Luke's rescue plan was for Han, and how it worked...Stalkeye hercules • 5 hours ago see more"but the top two things I HATED about ROTJ, I think, were The teddy-bear resistance fighters and using incest to resolve a really promising love triangle"
Okay, you got me there. XD
concerned citizen hercules • 6 hours ago see morePlease please please stop using aggregate scores to back up personal opinion. It's completely pointless and only really serves to imply you've got nothing to say yourself to back up your points.hercules w/ Ban Hammer concerned citizen • 6 hours ago see moreThat'll happen.
Your opinion is important, but so are the opinions of the vast majority who disagree with it.concerned citizen hercules • 5 hours ago see moreI'm not saying I disagree with you, but to jump from "I think film x is better than film y" straight to "97% on Rotten Tomatoes so there" is a peculiar kink in modern online film discussion. It doesn't lead one to develop any intellectual rigour to their arguments or point of view and stops discourse in its tracksAnthony hercules • 6 hours ago see moreI agree that first ST movie was very entertaining. The follow-up was meh and this 3rd one so far is making me very worried.
Lyle Lanley Anthony • 5 hours ago see moreHow can you boldly go where no man has gone before if your ship is stuck in spacedock 90% of the time because you totally fuck it up in every movie?
Mikey Wood Anthony • 5 hours ago see moreYeah, that two minutes of action packed sci-fi adventure has me spooked.
Oy.
Matt Underwood hercules • 6 hours ago see moreWow, what? I barely remember anything about 2009 Star Trek. As bad as the Ewoks and drugged out performances were, Return of the Jedi was full of iconic scenes.
Derk73 hercules • 4 hours ago see moreMy only serious complaint about new Star Trek: too much action. It could have REALLY used some down time and clever dialogue between Kirk, Spock and Bones.Celicynd hercules • 4 hours ago see moreAnd I can say that the Rotten Tomato user score has RotJ at 95% and Star Trek at 91%... so it seems more people prefer RotJ anyway.
Also, by your logic of RT scores, Star Trek: Into Darkness would be a better movie than RotJ and that's definitely not the case.
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