.. copy and pasted from the following URL .. article written by Mick Brown .. article copy and pasted from the website titled "The Telegraph".. Scorcese talks to Gore Vidal about evil.. fascinating.. just.. fascinating.. Gore Vidal is so very, very, very sorry.. about Rusty.. sob sob sob.. about.. about Rusyty .. .. .. .. https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/martin-scorsese-the-pull-of-evil-was-always-there/ar-AA1QwAKP

The Telegraph 1M Followers Martin Scorsese: ‘The pull of evil was always there’ Story by Mick Brown • 2w • 10 min read After spurning the priesthood, Martin Scorsese became perhaps Hollywood’s most celebrated filmmaker - Jay L Clendenin/Los Angeles Times/Contour RA/Getty After spurning the priesthood, Martin Scorsese became perhaps Hollywood’s most celebrated filmmaker - Jay L Clendenin/Los Angeles Times/Contour RA/Getty Talking once with the acerbic polemicist Gore Vidal about growing up on the streets of New York’s Little Italy in the 1940s and 1950s, Martin Scorsese remarked that there was only one of two things you could be in the neighbourhood, “a priest or a gangster”. “And you,” Vidal replied, “became both.” Bundle And Save Bundle And Save Sonnet Insurance · Sponsored call to action icon more Scorsese laughs when I remind him of that conversation. “Gore was being very flip,” he says. But he had a point. “To create something artistically,” Scorsese says, “you have to be very tough, and people would say it’s gangsterism. You have to negotiate, you have to push, you have to know when not to push.” To be a priest is another matter. Scorsese’s parents were second-generation Sicilian immigrants – a presser and a seamstress. Growing up on the teeming streets of Little Italy, violence – both physical and emotional – “was all around me”, Scorsese, 83 on Monday, says. “We were frightened by everything, basically. For me, that world was very, very difficult.” Scorsese’s sanctuary was just a short walk from the family home – St Patrick’s Old Cathedral. He was an altar boy, and studied in a seminary, with the intention of becoming a priest, but instead turned his back on it to become, in time, perhaps America’s most celebrated filmmaker. But if Scorsese left the church, it can be said the church never left him. Scorsese on Filmmaking and Faith is a book of conversations between the director and Jesuit priest Antonio Spadaro (right) Scorsese on Filmmaking and Faith is a book of conversations between the director and Jesuit priest Antonio Spadaro (right) As a new book of conversations between Scorsese and a 59-year-old Jesuit priest Antonio Spadaro, Scorsese on Filmmaking and Faith, makes clear, Scorsese’s entire body of work can be seen as a lifelong attempt to address the questions of faith and conscience, good and evil, sin and redemption that exercised him as a child. Welcome to AVIXA TV Welcome to AVIXA TV AVIXA TV · Sponsored call to action icon more ‘I poured everything into my films’ Last week, I spoke with Scorsese and Spadaro by video-link – the director in New York; the priest at his home in Barcelona. The pair have been friends since 2016, when Spadaro, who is the editor-in-chief of the Jesuit journal La Civiltà Cattolica, first interviewed Scorsese in New York about his film Silence, based on Shusaku Endo’s novel about a 17th-century Portuguese priest who goes to Japan to investigate the perse­cution of Christian missionaries. ‘‘It wasn’t the first time I met an artist interested in the sacred,” Spadaro says. “But with Martin there was something different; his vision was not abstract, theoretical. I would say visceral, deeply rooted in his own life experience. “Over time, that meeting gave life to the conversation on faith, so this book gathers years of intense and passionate conversions…” He catches himself. “An interesting Freudian slip! I should say, conversations…” ITpipes ITpipes ITpipes · Sponsored call to action icon more Scorsese laughs. “He converted me!” “No, it’s the other way around,” Spadaro jokes. “I told him once that he was my spiritual father.” Scorsese’s childhood in the turbulent ferment of Little Italy came to be, as he puts it, “the formation of my life” – and his films. In the new book he talks of how he “poured everything I felt and experienced, all of my questioning, my search for Jesus, my love for the church and my family, the people around me, all of it went into the creation of Mean Streets, Raging Bull, Casino…” – most notably through the vehicle of the man who became his principal actor, Robert De Niro. “Who, by the way,” Scorsese says now of De Niro, “never discusses this kind of thing with me. He’s a very different kind of person in that way… But he was not afraid to explore these aspects of what we are as human beings…” Robert De Niro (right), was Scorsese’s acting muse for much of the director’s early career. (Pictured together on the set of Goodfellas, 1990) - Everett Collection Inc/Alamy Stock Photo Robert De Niro (right), was Scorsese’s acting muse for much of the director’s early career. (Pictured together on the set of Goodfellas, 1990) - Everett Collection Inc/Alamy Stock Photo “All these stories,” he goes on, “had to do with the themes and faith that I was exploring over the years – embracing the faith and the innocence of childhood, reacting against that, but finding myself still constantly obsessed with it. This was something I thought about every minute of the day. And that means looking at us closely, the good and the bad. “Who am I? What am I here for? How am I behaving? How do I relate to other people? What is selfishness? And maybe selfishness is just protection for yourself and your family and those you love. All of these elements combined with the different themes that I found myself making films about.” He leans forward, staring into his camera. “I wasn’t trying to make sermons. I was trying to present these stories, conflicts, these parts of who we are as human beings, to present this in entertainment form, because I like to do that. I don’t necessarily want to make a film that’s only shown to 20 people. I also enjoy entertaining people. And sometimes through humour and a kind of audacity, one could provoke a reaction. I was a great admirer of Monty Python, for example – their humour provoked.” He smiles, “My films certainly wouldn’t be considered as humour.” ‘Using church as an escape’ Scorsese is an intense man, whose combination of rapid-fire sentences and long, thoughtful silences, brow furrowed, bushy eyebrows knitted together, lend him the impression of a man who is not so much being interrogated as engaged in a sustained interrogation of himself. It was a young priest in the seminary, Father Principe, not much older than 15-year-old Scorsese himself, whose example first encouraged Scorsese to want to enter the church – but who also first awakened him to a world beyond the suffocating confines of Little Italy, giving him “a whole new way of looking at life”. And so he left the church behind. Scorsese is presented to Pope Francis by Spadaro in 2023 - Vatican News Scorsese is presented to Pope Francis by Spadaro in 2023 - Vatican News Would Scorsese have made a good priest? “Well, first of all, what is a good priest?” The eyebrows arch into question marks. As a teenager, he says, the church was “the only place that had a kind of peace to it”. He elaborates: “Going to confession – whatever the sins you had, or thought you had – the relief with absolution was so intense that you often felt that you should die at that moment so that you could be in God’s presence. And that’s what I’ve always wanted to hold on to. But that does not make a vocation. You have to go out and take that and give it to others, and the minute I learnt at 15 years old that this was a bigger commitment… what was I thinking?” The thought trails into silence. “What I was trying to do was run away, using the church as an escape. And also to be redeemed.” He pauses. The brow furrows again. “What is this thing called redemption? Can you redeem yourself? Critics [of his films] say who cares? You don’t have to agree with it, but that’s what drives my creative impulse.” ‘I thought I was lapsed for a long time’ Spadaro, who has been listening intently as Scorsese speaks, nods. “The priest’s task is to make the presence of grace visible in the chaos of life,” he says, “and Martin does precisely that through his art. So his vocation, for me, was real. Had he followed the priest’s path formally, he would have been a good priest. But I believe he already is one in speaking to the human soul in the universal language of cinema. So you might say he says his Mass on the screen with light and sound.” Spadaro believes Scorsese would have made a good priest but speaks to the human soul through his films regardless - Melinda Sue Gordon/Apple TV Spadaro believes Scorsese would have made a good priest but speaks to the human soul through his films regardless - Melinda Sue Gordon/Apple TV In the past Scorsese has described himself as a lapsed Catholic, distancing himself from the institution and rituals of the church. But in recent years, he has begun attending Mass again and taking communion. “I thought I was lapsed for a long period of time. And then the other day I thought, there’s a difference – am I a good Catholic? My thing is really, a good Catholic as opposed to lapsed, and the true aspect of it is…” He pauses for what seems an age, deep in thought. “Forgive me, I just lapsed for a second here…” He laughs. “I think it’s really learning about giving yourself to others.” The ever-present shadow of faith is doubt. “There’s always struggle,” Scorsese says, “to be in this condition that we are and what we’re doing here. And the struggle is to be in that dark room that Flannery O’Connor [the late American novelist] writes about – you’re groping around in the dark room; you still have faith that you won’t fall, and you might even hit a light switch. But, of course, Flannery also adds that by the time you think you’ve gotten it, life is over.” Scorsese has experienced his own dark nights of the soul. “Oh certainly, absolutely…” In the late 1970s, he went on a prolonged cocaine binge, which resulted in him being hospitalised after a near fatal overdose. “There were some drugs – but I didn’t go on any programme or anything like that, I just stopped them. I think I may have been exploring the romance of the decadent poets, let’s say it, in the 19th century in France. As if I could!” He laughs. “But it wasn’t as if somebody came and changed everything I was doing. The reality was, I woke up and I was still alive.” Scorsese (left) with the Band guitarist Robbie Robertson in 1978, a period when the pair binged cocaine - AP Photo Scorsese (left) with the Band guitarist Robbie Robertson in 1978, a period when the pair binged cocaine - AP Photo There was always an attraction to “the darker side”, Scorsese says, “particularly coming from where I came from. Because a lot of the people did horrendous things. I knew them when I was nine years old, and I still can’t put it together; I still have part of ‘Am I capable of it, if I went a certain way?’ “I saw things happen and I moved the other way, but the pull of embracing evil was always there. And there’s no doubt, somehow I made it through.” ‘I always wanted to learn how to love’ In a recent five-part AppleTV documentary, Mr Scorsese, which ranges exhaustively over his life and work, Scorsese talks of watching old Hollywood love stories and always wondering what happened after the boy and girl had finally got together. “There’s the beginning of the courtship, the love, the infatuation. What happens after? I always wanted to learn how to love – that was the thing. “First of all,” he says now, “learning is one thing, being in love is another. To really understand [love] is a wonderful thing, I think, and that’s why we are existing. And maybe that comes through devotion to another person, or people, an extended family. It’s the old story, what’s the most important commandment? And Jesus turned around and said, ‘Love God and love your neighbour as yourself.’ And that involves a lot.” Throughout his life, Scorsese says, he sacrificed personal relationships on the altar of his work. “I don’t know if I was really ready for it,” he says, perhaps alluding to commitment. Scorsese has been married five times. He married his wife Helen Morris, a former publishing editor, in 1999. That same year, Helen gave birth to their daughter, Francesca (Scorsese also has two daughters from two earlier marriages). “With Helen, being older parents, it made us aware of love in another way.” Scorsese married Helen in 1999. The same year, Helen gave birth to their daughter, Francesca - Apple TV Scorsese married Helen in 1999. The same year, Helen gave birth to their daughter, Francesca - Apple TV Helen has been living with Parkinson’s disease for the past 20 years, and her condition is increasingly worsening. Scorsese features in the 2021 Netflix documentary Stories of a Generation – with Pope Francis, for which Spadaro acted as editorial consultant, in which people over the age of 70 from all over the world share stories about their lives and choices. Scorsese is seen with Francesca, and, touchingly, with Helen – solicitous, concerned, loving. Scorsese and Helen first met Pope Francis in 2016, following a screening of Silence for 300 Jesuit priests at a pontifical college – 28 years after Catholic officials and clergy had condemned Scorsese’s film The Last Temptation of Christ as “blasphemous” and “morally offensive”. Scorsese met the pontiff on several more occasions before his death last year. In Stories of a Generation, Pope Francis talks of Scorsese’s marriage. The pontiff says: “[Scorsese] was the big star, yet he said, ‘[Helen] is what matters to me. She’s more important than all my successes, all my films, than all the things I’ve done.’ He was completely vulnerable. He did not defend himself against his wife’s illness. He showed his love. That deserves more awards than his films, which are excellent.” “After Pope Francis met Martin and Helen,” Spadaro says, “he told me, ‘When I see them together, I understand what love is.’ That was unforgettable.” Helen Morris has been living with Parkinson’s disease for 20 years (the couple are pictured at the 1998 premiere of Kundun) - Volker Donberger/EPA Helen Morris has been living with Parkinson’s disease for 20 years (the couple are pictured at the 1998 premiere of Kundun) - Volker Donberger/EPA Scorsese looks abashed. “The illness is such that it’s… a fading away.” He pauses. “I know she liked it when I made movies. She understood that’s what I do. And it also means taking care of the family, making sure they have what they need in terms of physical necessities, doctors and nurses and that sort of thing. And I generate that. “So there is tension to a certain extent, meaning there is fading away, and I’m going out there, punching it out in the ring to make another film and then bring it back home.” He pauses. “I’ve got to say, it’s a whole different phase now in the past two years,” referring to his wife’s deteriorating condition. “So these things change. And what does one do?” Does he consider himself a “good” person? “I think I’d be presumptuous to think I am. But then again, I don’t want to be despairing in that I never could be. Have I behaved badly? Yes. Have I done [bad] things in my life? Every minute I’m reminded of it. And I have old friends who remind me of it.” He laughs. “My movies remind me of it, and I don’t even see them again.” “So there we are, the two sins against the Holy Ghost, presumption and despair.” He pauses. “But you try.” Scorsese on Filmmaking and Faith: A Conversation Between Martin Scorsese and Antonio Spadaro (Sceptre) is out now in hardback, e-book and audio Recommended From Casino to Goodfellas: Martin Scorsese's 20 best films, ranked Read more Sign up to the Front Page newsletter for free: Your essential guide to the day's agenda from The Telegraph - direct to your inbox seven days a week. Sponsored The Telegraph Visit The Telegraph ‘Large cupboard’ saves flat owner £1.7m in stamp duty The 10 best restaurants in Zell am See-Kaprun The perfect ski holiday in Austria’s most surprising resort, Zell am See-Kaprun Sponsored